LA PATRULLA AZUL

Typhoon, Thunderbolt and Il-2 Shturmovik compared
Author: Christer Bergstr�m (Guest)
Time Stamp:
12:14:47 29 February 2004
Post:
In a thread on the Russian Military Forum (29 Jan - 4 Feb 2004), T. Colvin is discussing the effectiveness of the Allied ground-attack aircraft Il-2, Typhoon and Thunderbolt, in view of both the damage they caused and the losses they suffered. His conclusion is quite interesting:

" The reason IL-2's suffered greater rate of losses than any other aircraft was mostly tactics -- IL-2 pilots would attack their target until it was destroyed or they ran out of ammo. Ground fire is usually ineffective on the first pass, but if the plane is coming back again and again, that's when it starts taking its toll."

"The Il-2 was not easy to shoot down, according to the Germans, being immune to 20-mm flak. But if the plane kept coming back until the target was destroyed, then it would become the target for the 88-mm and even field guns like the LFH105-mm. The Germans fired everything at it.

The point is the Il-2 did a lot of damage. The Allied unarmoured fighter-bombers like the Typhoon and Jug did relatively little damage, and suffered horrendous losses from flak on only one pass. They never returned and usually left the target intact."

" That the Typhoon and Jug did little damage was proved by OR Report No 4 "Air Attacks on Enemy Tanks and Motor Transport in the Mortain Area, August 1944", publihde in 'Montgomery's Scientists'.

On August 7, 1944 in perfect conditions of weather and without the presence of the LW or flak, Typhoons with R/Ps and Jugs with 500-lb bombs attacked German Panzer divisions head to tail in crowded lanes headed for Mortain. The pilots said they could go in very close. They claimed the following totals for armour and MT; destroyed 301; probably destroyed 63; damaged 116; grand total 480. A joint Army and RAF OR team visited the area and did a forensic style examination of the evidence. This showed that the total destroyed by the air was 33, of which RPs destroyed 17, cannon/mg 14, and bombs 2.

2. That pilots did one pass and then buggared off because the flak boys would have woken up, is stated by pilots to have been policy. The following is from Ground Attack Aircraft of WWII;

Squadron Leader Raymond A. (Cheval) Lallemont, DFC and Bar, CO of 609 Squadron; "I became involved in a sharp argument with the Wing leader, Wing Commander Dring, over my practice of making a pass at low level before firing in order to pick out the tanks from the soft-skinned vehicles. Dring had concluded that this gave the accurate flak a double chance to shoot the aircraft down and was therefore undesirable, but I considered it to be essential"."

"In NW Europe, Typhoon losses to Flak averaged 15%, or 3 to 5 aircraft, per squadron per month. Spitfire pilots refused to volunteer for Typhoons."

The thread starts at: http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/mes ... 1075387456

I wonder if anyone with knowledge on RAF and USAAF ground-attack operation can add some new facts which will help us to develop this case?

All best,

Christer Bergstr%F6m

http://www.graf-grislawski.elknet.pl/index.htm

http://www.bergstrombooks.elknet.pl/bc-rs/

"The Il-2 was not easy to shoot down, according to the Germans, being immune to 20-mm flak. But if the plane kept coming back until the target was destroyed, then it would become the target for the 88-mm and even field guns like the LFH105-mm. The Germans fired everything at it.

The point is the Il-2 did a lot of damage. The Allied unarmoured fighter-bombers like the Typhoon and Jug did relatively little damage, and suffered horrendous losses from flak on only one pass. They never returned and usually left the target intact."